SPEAKER_00: 0:08

Welcome back to the Texas Family Lawyer Podcast. I am Hunt Law Firm Managing Attorney Alex Hunt, and I am happy to be joined today by Hunt Law Firm Associate Attorney Alina Smith. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

So today we're just going to jump right in. We're going to talk about what happens to the kids in a family law case. And we've delved into some specifics in prior podcasts. If you go to our website at familylawyerkatie.com, there are a ton of resources. Click, go to the website, click on the resources tab, click on the blog so you can see articles. You can get a lot of really granular detail. You can get in the weeds. We give a lot of really detailed information. But today we just wanted to give an overview of people that are interested in what this process looks like and what you can expect out of a final custody order or a final divorce order on the kid issues. We're just going to keep it general and we're going to talk about what kind of a default order would look like. So the caveat, the disclaimer is that uh every case is going to be fact-specific. The circumstances depend on the people and um, you know, what's involved in in your life and your kids and the parties. But we're just gonna talk generally about what this will look like. And the the best place to start when you're talking about kid issues is conservatorship. Right. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

So, you know, you hear a lot about custody, right? Custody this, custody that. I want sole custody, we're gonna have joint custody. And it's important to know what that term really means in Texas. And you're right, a great place to start is conservatorship. And conservatorship in Texas is essentially the right to be a parent. It is decision-making authority for your minor child. And, you know, in in Texas, when there are two parents standing before a court, right? Like again, like you said, parents can make their own agreements and, you know, in settlement negotiations and mediation and all of that good stuff. But if you go to a final trial or a temporary orders hearing and you're standing before a judge in Texas, the presumption is that both parents are going to be named joint managing conservators. And what does that mean? That just means we have two active parents telling the court, I'm here, I want to participate, and I want to make decisions for my child. And, you know, barring some kind of interesting factual determination, otherwise, that is the presumption, and that is likely what is going to happen in a court.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42

Okay. So that's joint managing conservatorship. There's also the soul managing conservatorship. We see that much less frequently. And as you mentioned, there's certain facts that are associated with that, usually bad facts for one of the parents. There's something that's wrong. There's um substance abuse or some reason that uh the kids can't be safe because of family violence, or there's just an absent parent. It's it's not a typical situation that we would normally default to. Um, but what does the joint managing conservatorship bring with it? And what does the soul managing conservator bring with it in terms of the rights and duties that are associated with it?

SPEAKER_01: 3:22

Right. So when a parent is named a conservator, whether they are a joint managing conservator or they are a soul managing conservator, there are certain rights and duties that come along with that designation. And, you know, there are some rights that you're just going to get, you know, just by being named a conservator, whether you're joint managing or soul managing, accessory, whatever it is. And these are things like you have the right to, you know, confer with your child's doctors, and you have the right to go get their medical records. You have the right to talk to their teachers or their principal, and the right to access their school records, their attendance records, their report cards. You have the right to um go to school and go to do their extracurricular activities at school, or if they have a school performance, go to school lunches, go to field trips. And the other parent doesn't have the ability to prevent you from doing that. And the court doesn't have to make a decision about how those are parsed out. You're just gonna get those no matter what.

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

It's a lot of information. Uh, you're the ability to get information so that way if you have the right to make decisions, you can just be aware of things.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

And I think that that's helpful, right? If you're co-parenting with somebody who's very difficult to communicate with, you're not relying on them only. You have the ability yourself to go access that information without them.

SPEAKER_00: 4:49

Very important. Okay, so let's dig into the the rights and duties that can differ depending on joint managing conservatorship, soul managing conservatorship. And, you know, we use those terms, and what they mean is that there's certain rights and duties that are that are, you know, exclusive to one parent if you're soul managing conservator. But it doesn't mean that you can't have some exclusive decision making in an area if both of the parents are joint managing conservators. So let's dig into the rights specifically. And as family lawyers, we um kind of colloquially call them bed, head, med, ed. So bed is the uh exclusive right to determine the primary residence of the child. Head is psychological, psychiatric decisions, med is invasive medical decisions, non-emergencies, and ed is educational. So let's start at the top. Um, the exclusive right to determine the primary residence. You you might have heard this or read about this if you're doing research, uh, listeners, as the primary custodian or the primary conservator. Tell me what it means in reality.

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

So in a custody case, whether it's a divorce with children or you've never been married, but you have a child with somebody and now you're in a court case and you're getting orders in place, the court is going to pick one of you when you are joint managing conservators. The court's going to make a determination between the two of you who should be the parent, like you said, that has the exclusive right to designate the child's primary residence. And that just essentially means there's going to be one parent that we pick that has the right to decide where your kid lives most of the time.

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

And and primary and exclusive means that parent would have the sole right to make that decision, obviously. Uh, and then the primary residence, meaning where they're going to be living uh most of the time, we take all of that legal ease, and a lot of times you're just going to hear people say they're the primary parent or the primary conservator. Um the psychological and psychiatric decisions, um, there's a few different ways that the court or the parties could parse those rights out.

SPEAKER_01: 7:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

The default one is joint decision making, which would mean in the absence of an agreement, the status quo is going to be what rules the day. So if the let me give you an example if uh mom wants the child to go and see a therapist and dad says no, and you have joint decision making, the child's not going to go to a therapist because uh there's there's no agreement. The parties haven't come come together. Each parent has a veto power. Um there are other ways that the court or the parties can assign these rights, though. Tell me about those.

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

So the other two manners that the court or the parties can parse out this decision-making ability is exclusive decision-making, which we kind of already hit on a little bit. One parent has the right to make that decision without the other parent's consent. There is an expectation that you if you have the exclusive right, you are going to consult in, you know, beforehand with the other parent to inform them and give get maybe even their opinion. But even if they disagree with you and you have that exclusive right, you're still able to make that decision on your own. The other one is independent decision making. And on this heads, eds, and meds, you know, I think as practitioners, we advise typically advise clients not to at least agree to independent decision making. It can create problems. What does it mean? Each parent has the right to make the decision on their own. Something like psych psychiatric and psychological treatment, well, that might be okay. Because when the child is in one parent's possession and they say, you know what, I want you to see a counselor, I want you to see a therapist while you're with me on my time, fine, you can do that. It doesn't really interfere too much with the other parent. But, you know, as far as like a medical decision, when we have one parent saying yes and one parent saying no, and they both have the right to say yes or no, it sparky creates a problem.

SPEAKER_00: 9:08

Okay, I'll just have your tonsils taken out when I have you.

SPEAKER_01: 9:12

It's it did not work.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

You can't undo it. Um, the other thing to consider too is that psychological and psychiatric, those really are two very different decisions. They are. And you might be able to do psychological decisions independently and have the kid go to therapy with one parent or the other. But uh, psychiatric is more difficult because usually if the psychiatrist prescribes uh like a psychotropic medication or an antidepressant or something like that, there's you can't just go off of it for an extended period of time. There needs to be some sort of agreement that it's going to continue while in the other parent's care. And so for that reason, if we're going to do independent for psychological, we usually won't extend that to psychiatric as well. That would need to be like a joint or exclusive decision making. You know, one of the caveats this, so we've talked about joint decision making, we've talked about exclusive decision making, we've talked about independent decision making. One of the things over the last, I'd say 10 years or so that has gotten more in vogue is um joint decision making for there to be a tiebreaker. Yes. And so uh if you have joint decision making with a tiebreaker, usually for for um medical decisions, it's the child's pediatrician. Yes. Usually for educational decisions, it's school principal or the school counselor. Yes. Uh the the for uh to give an example of psych psychiatry, if you uh one parent says the kid needs to go to a psychiatrist, the other parent says no, and the pediatrician is the tiebreaker, then you go to the the pediatrician and you give information about what the kid needs, and then the pediatrician most of the time is going to say, Mom or dad, you think the kid needs to see a psychiatrist? Yes, they should go see a psychiatrist. So usually the pediatrician is um, I mean, usually they're going to deflect any type of liability they might have in this. And a lot of times we find school principals and school counselors and pediatricians to be like, I didn't sign up for this. Um, but most of the time they're going to recommend going and getting whatever the treatment is or whatnot.

SPEAKER_01: 11:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 11:29

Um, so okay, so that is uh the medical uh decision making. Then we also have educational decision making, and it's the the same there. But there's an additional piece of educational decision making, and that's school enrollment. And that might be treated a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_01: 11:48

It can be. So sometimes it makes the most sense for the parent who has the exclusive right to designate the primary residence of the child to also be the parent who has the exclusive right to enroll the child in school. And then after that, both parents have a duty and an obligation to ensure that the child attends while the child is in their possession, that school that the parent who has that exclusive right to enroll has enrolled the child in. Sometimes we see it as a joint right if they can work together and come to an agreement on that. I think sometimes it's a little cleaner when it is just one parent has the exclusive right. It just sometimes bypasses some of that back and forth.

SPEAKER_00: 12:31

And then there are some other rights and duties that are a little bit uh they're minor ones. Well, but I mean lesser known. They're yeah, they're important, um, but they're not the ones that there's usually a fight about. What are some of those?

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

These are things like um the right to represent your child in a legal action. So you and your child have been in a bad car wreck, your child has a personal injury claim against a driver, and you want to file a lawsuit on their behalf because they're a minor, but your co-parent doesn't want to do that. We can parse that right out as an independent right, and you can do that on your own. Um, other good examples are things like enlistment in the armed forces before the age of 18, marriage before the age of 18, but those are kind of funny because you're not really allowed to do that in Texas before the age of 18 anyway anymore, but they're still there.

SPEAKER_00: 13:19

And and most of the time I see that as joint. I could I think I can probably count on one hand over, you know, this many years of practice, the amount of times that I've had a non-joint right for uh enlistment in the military or for uh in in marriage. And and most of the time it's not something that people are fighting about at all.

SPEAKER_01: 13:37

Usually not. Another big one that has become uh of more concern to people in the last few years is uh relates to passports, the right to apply for a passport for your child, the right to renew it, and the right to maintain it. Generally, I think we see people having joint rights on at least the right to apply for and renew the passport. And then typically, you know, somebody has to have the right to hold the passport and you know, uh maintain it. And so that is usually an exclusive right. But then there is a nice long provision that we'd see in final orders, whether it be a divorce or a child custody case, about you know, exchanging the passport and and giving the other parent notice of international travel and all of those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00: 14:23

And you can customize that language if you need to. And we we do that quite frequently. And again, we're talking about standard provisions here, but if there's some sort of specific provision you need to address that, you you certainly could. All right, so let's move on from conservatorship and talk a little bit about possession schedules. In Texas, we have something called a standard possession schedule. The way that this works is that the legislature uh puts a standard possession schedule into the laws. It's in something called the Texas Family Code. And this is what governs um the kind of the default uh possession schedule for uh both of the parents. And then um, you know, unless there is a reason to um move away from a standard possession schedule, um, the courts are generally going to apply the standard possession schedule um in most instances. So tell me a little about what our listeners and our viewers need to know about a standard possession order.

SPEAKER_01: 15:19

So the first thing to keep in mind is that along with conservatorship, any possession and access order that a court renders, orders, makes has to be in the best interest of the child. And like you said, the Texas Family Code lays out a standard possession order that the Texas legislature has determined between two joint managing conservators is likely to be in the best interest of the child. Now, I think it's important off the bat to say that it is not a 50-50% time split. It's pretty close, you know, it differs a little bit from year to year, but the number that we generally see is it's around a 58-42% split. It's near 50-50, but still not quite.

SPEAKER_00: 16:01

And the and the time is it's different time too. So uh a lot of the time the non-custodial parent or the non-primary parent is gonna get a lot more uh summer and vacation and weekend time, and the primary parent is going to get a lot more of that um, you know, kind of the the grind time regimented school time. Yeah, going to school and uh, you know, you're you're doing homework and you're going to dance class and you're going to basketball practice. So it's different time.

SPEAKER_01: 16:31

It can be, definitely. The way that it essentially works is our standard possession order in Texas looks something like this. The first, third, and fifth Friday of every single month. And keep in mind, not every single month has a fifth Friday, but it pops up four or five times a year. Um, first, third, and fifth Fridays of the month from the time that, and let's talk about the expanded standard possession order because that's typically what we tend to see. From the time the child gets out of school on Friday until they go back to school on Monday morning. So the whole weekend. In addition, during the school year, Thursdays, from the time the child gets out of school on Thursday until they go back to school on Friday morning. And that's every single Thursday. That's a pretty significant chunk of time. And so, you know, the best way to think about it is those are kind of two separate provisions in our Texas family code. But on the first, third, and fifth weekends of the month, when you're the non-primary parent, you're essentially getting your child from the time they get out of school on Thursday, you pick them up and you return them to school on Monday morning. So you're getting four nights, you know, every other week.

SPEAKER_00: 17:35

Right. And that the uh expanded standard possession order is something that if you live within zero to 50 miles of the primary conservator, you automatically get that. If you live 50 to 100 miles from the primary conservator, you have the choice. Yes. And if you live 100 miles or more away, you're going to get a regular standard possession order. Yes. How does that differ? A regular standard possession order, how does that differ from an expanded standard possession order?

SPEAKER_01: 18:06

The regular standard possession order without the expanded part is essentially just cut down a little bit on both sides. So under the standard possession order, when you live more than 100 miles away, or if you choose to have that little bit lesser time when you live within that 50 to 100 mile range, it is the first, third, and fifth weekend, again, but from 6 p.m. on Friday until 6 p.m. on Sunday. And then on Thursdays during school year, instead of it being an overnight visit, you get essentially dinner time from 6 to 8 p.m. on Thursdays during the school year.

SPEAKER_00: 18:40

And then uh outside of the first, third, and fifth weekends, there's special times that are also built into both of these schedules. Like uh during the summer, you'd get 30 days. The non-custodial parent would get 30 days. And the custodial parent can also um make an election to have some extended period. So if they want to go on a vacation or something, they can do that too. And the way that that summer possession works is that they um the non-custodial parent can make the election by April 1st and they can choose whatever period of 30 days they want. They could break it into two periods if they wanted to. And uh then the other parent, once that election is made, um, they can make their custodial parent can make their uh summer plans and they can make their election. And there's it defaults for the non-custodial parent if they don't make that election in writing uh to July 1st to July 30th. And then you'd also have summer break and you'd have uh every other Thanksgiving, and you would take the Christmas break and you would split it down the middle, and then depending on it's an odd or even year, you would get half, uh either the first half or the second half. So you'd also get Father's Day and uh Mother's Day and some special provisions on the kid's birthday. But um, this is kind of what we go over in our consultations with our clients. And if you go to our website and you're interested in this, you you go to familylawyerkatie.com, you go to resources, and you will see um both this year's calendar and previous year's calendar, we have a very detailed graphical representation, a calendar, and it's shaded with what this actually looks like. And for our visual learners out there, I know I'm one of them, it really helps to see it displayed visually.

SPEAKER_01: 20:23

Yeah. And you know, I think something important to say is that it's really important to have a calendar. And part of the reason you have this order is to make it clear when your possession time ends and when your co-parent starts. And so having some kind of calendar, whether you use a resource like ours or you make your own and you share it with your co-parent so that you're on the same page and you avoid those. I thought it was your day, I thought it was my day. When you avoid those things and you have a calendar and you're sharing it and everybody's on the same page, it makes everything significantly easier. And I think that we find, you know, getting on the standard possession order, whether it be the one with elections or without, can be a little bit overwhelming. It's kind of a lot of switching and figuring out when you're going here and going back and what the kiddo is doing. But I think we find that once people get on that schedule, it brings some of the chaos down and everybody knows what they're doing, they know where they're going. And there's a nice long written-out order. If anybody has any questions that you can go and refer to and find the answer of, well, it's Friday and and this is before a school holiday. Do I get this time? Is it my co-parents' time? It just helps make everything a little bit more clear for everybody.

SPEAKER_00: 21:35

100%. And one of the things that I like about that standard possession order is right at the outset of the standard possession order, it says, in the absence of an agreement, otherwise, this standard possession order will be what governs the possession time, meaning that if you and your co-parent agree to something else, uh, you don't have to follow this. You can do whatever you guys want. And I have had clients that have taken the standard possession order and put it in a drawer and have never used it because they can co-parent effectively. And now our listeners might be watching this or listening to this and saying, well, that must be nice, but that's not going to be my situation. And that's why we have the order, is because that's not always the case. You want to have something in writing, you want to have something you can refer back to so that way you can um have some sort of confirmation of what you're doing. You always have a fallback.

SPEAKER_01: 22:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 22:33

And and that's what this provides is that type of assurance.

SPEAKER_01: 22:36

But it but that provision provides enough flexibility for when something comes up and something changes or a schedule changes that you and your co-parent can work it out together and be flexible and you can make a change. Great. Right. That's what we want you to do. That's what this weekend. Absolutely. That's what the court wants you to do. If you can agree on it, awesome. Go for it. Do what works for your life. Because again, this is a standard default thing. It might not work for your family all the time, especially when your family looks, you know, in your dynamic looks a little bit different now. If you're going through a child custody case or a divorce case. And so when you can come to an agreement and do something else, great. It's when you can't come to an agreement and you're not agreeing that at least we have an order in place that makes it very clear of whose possession time is when, when it starts and ends, and all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 23:26

All right. So we've talked about conservatorship, we've talked about possession schedules. Uh, the third major area of a child custody order is child support. Yes. How does the court in Texas determine child support?

SPEAKER_01: 23:41

So child support in Texas is determined based on a percentage of your net monthly resources. And there's a whole list of factors and things that the court will um take into consideration as part of your income every single month when you're the non-primary parent. If you're the non-primary, you're the one paying child support. And there's a whole laundry list. It's, you know, all of the income you make from your job, if you have any kind of a side hustle that's making money, if you're, you know, receiving a dividend payment, that kind of thing. There's a whole list. And everything that you make for the year is factored into your yearly income. And then, you know, we we make a determination of your monthly net resources, you know, things like how much are you paying in Social Security taxes are taken out, right? Because that's not an option. You have to pay those, as well as your federal income taxes that are withheld from your paychecks or any, you know, if you're paying privately on your own, if you have some kind of side hustle going on. There are certain things that are um taken out of that amount because you're not getting to, you know, benefit from that income. It's already being withheld. And that is the number that the court will start with to consider how much can you pay in child support and how much is appropriate under the Texas Family Code guidelines for you to pay in support every month. And that's where we start.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

And and the good thing is that we're not necessarily calculating this based on your your individual withholdings, because you know, like you do your uh what is it, your W4 at the beginning of the year and you say how many exemptions you have, like you can withhold more money than another person. And so then if you like base the net resources off of what somebody's getting withheld, they can kind of fudge the numbers. What you do is the office attorney general just has a um a uh database where they say this is your gross income, then this is what you should be taking out for taxes, and that will give you your net resources. And um, it's gotten a whole lot easier over the last 10 to 20 years because now you can literally pull up on the attorney general's website a calculator. Anyone can do it. Put in your own info. It's not just practitioners, anybody can do it. And you put in your information, you put in the amount of kids that you have, you put in uh how much you pay for insurance, and it spits out a number for you. And that is the same calculation, and it's the same calculator that the judges use and that and that we use as well. Um so is it possible though, that the court sometimes will not use that guideline child support number?

SPEAKER_01: 26:13

Absolutely. It's possible. There are some factors that the court can consider and some extenuating circumstances where it makes logical sense, right? That a guideline amount might not be appropriate and there should be some, you know, perhaps increase in the amount, you know, past the guidelines of what the non-primary parent should be paying in child support every month. I think the most common example that we see as practitioners is a child has a severe physical disability and you know, they have significant, you know, occupational or physical or speech therapy appointments, and those are expensive and might not always be covered by insurance. Um, or, you know, they have a specific medication that isn't covered by insurance or whatever it may be, there are these extra costs that are necessary to the support and um, you know, life, everyday life of this child. And so the court can consider factors like that and saying, okay, your guideline child support payment should be X, but because of these extra expenses, maybe it needs to be X plus some.

SPEAKER_00: 27:16

Yeah. And uh the court also has the ability. Generally, child support is going to end when the child turns 18 or when they graduate from high school, whichever occurs later. The court does have the ability if the child has a disability and will require uh care for the rest of the child's life or for an extended period of time, can require that child support be extended past 18 and past graduation. And so that's something to consider too. If you have a child with a disability and you're worried, how am I going to take care of this child after he or she turns 18, there are provisions in the family code to account for that.

SPEAKER_01: 27:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Um, let's talk a little bit about medical and uh dental support, talk about uh insurance, because that's an important provision. Uh, it's not the same as child support, but it's still in the same section and it is a way of supporting your child. So tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:12

Sure. So when you're the non-primary parent and you are ordered to pay child support, you will, in addition, be obligated to cover the premiums for the cost of your child's insurance as well, for both health insurance and for medical insurance, sorry, health insurance and also for dental insurance. Um, vision insurance is great, and you know, we want everybody to have it, but it's not a provision that is required in the Texas family code that you are required to um cover as well for your child.

SPEAKER_00: 28:40

Okay. Uh some frequently asked questions. And this one I got before we did this podcast college expenses, extracurricular activities are things these things that the court will order one party to pay, 50% or all of. No. Have we had cases where the uh parties have agreed to it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 29:03

You can agree to that, of course you can.

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

Um you can contract anything, um, but the court really doesn't have authority to order that one side is going to pay for all or 50% of the extracurriculars, or you know, parents in Texas don't have any obligation to their kids legally, morally maybe, but legally to their kids after they turn 18. And so there's no obligation that the court can impose on the parents to make them pay for anything related to college expenses. But we will sometimes have people that they both parties agree they want to put that in there, and they will put it into a divorce decree just to give the other parent peace of mind that they're not going to be completely on the hook for their kids' um college education or whatever their uh training is after high school. And then the last thing that I'll say uh is that you're always free to make your own agreement on any of these terms. And there's ways that we can get these things locked in. In and um, you know, the court will uh be obligated to accept it. But whether it's child support or conservatorship, possession schedule, if you want to do some sort of um totally different possession schedule, we represent people that go and work offshore. They'll be two weeks off, they'll be two weeks back on. We've done a custom possession schedule because that's what works for their life. Standard possession order doesn't work for them. We also have people that want to do um 50-50 custody.

SPEAKER_01: 30:31

That a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 30:32

And and um, you know, let's let's dig into that a little bit. There's two ways to do that. Um, well, there's there's more than two ways. There's two common ways to do it. The first way is week on, week off. And that's where uh, you know, say Sunday at 6 p.m., you're exchanging the kids every week. One week with mom, one week with dad, one week with parent one, one week with parent two. Um, the second way is a two, two, three, which is a little bit more complicated, a little bit more moving around. Yeah. Talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:00

Yeah. So the the two, two, three, you know, is basically exactly what it sounds like. The instructions are in the name. You know, you spend a designated two days with parent A, a designated two days with parent B, and then on that three-day, which falls over the weekend, typically, you're alternating. And, you know, so everybody ends up with the same essentially amount of time. But, you know, we tend to caution people very carefully about agreeing to a 50-50 possession split. Because while it sounds great, it really only works effectively once kids are, you know, by the time they're school age, you know, when they're in grade school and if they live so close together.

SPEAKER_00: 31:40

And the courts really don't like it.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

And a court, unless it's a situation where you've been doing a, you know, 50-50 split, a 2-2-3 type schedule for a long period of time, you know, a year or something before this hearing, you know, or a final trial when you go before the judge, they're not gonna order it. Unless it's kind of a status quo consideration, they're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:02

Yeah, yeah. No, I I completely agree. Well, Alina, I think that we've covered uh most of the basics of what happens to the kids in a Texas family law case. We've covered the major components of uh child custody order that conservatorship and possession schedules and child support. And but if you have other questions out there, listeners or viewers, uh you're welcome to go to our website. We have a ton of information uh uh under the resources tab and in the uh the blog link where you can see a whole bunch of articles related. The child custody and divorce, name changes, adoptions, estate planning, everything. Under the umbrella of family law, go to family lawyerkaty.com and you can get all of that information there. If you wanted to do a consultation with Alina or with myself or any of the lawyers in uh any of our four offices, we've got an office in Katy, uh Cyprus, Sugarland, and League City. You can also meet with us by Zoom or on phone. Call us at 832-315-5494. And until then, we'll see you next time on the Family Lawyer Podcast. Thanks, Alina.